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	<title>Comments on: International Rankings: A Self-fulfilling Nightmare?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/</link>
	<description>Higher Education, Science &#38; Innovation from a Global Perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Counting what is measured or measuring what counts? &#124; Beerkens' Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-6454</link>
		<dc:creator>Counting what is measured or measuring what counts? &#124; Beerkens' Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/07/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/#comment-6454</guid>
		<description>[...] are indeed strongly influenced by league tables. One finding that I confirmed my expectations (see here and here) was about the link - and often contradiction - between league table criteria and other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are indeed strongly influenced by league tables. One finding that I confirmed my expectations (see here and here) was about the link &#8211; and often contradiction &#8211; between league table criteria and other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: THES Ranking 2007 by Country &#124; Beerkens' Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-6311</link>
		<dc:creator>THES Ranking 2007 by Country &#124; Beerkens' Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/07/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/#comment-6311</guid>
		<description>[...] will be the last post about it (of course not the last post about rankings in general and their dynamics). I played around a bit with the data in Excel and had a look at it from a country [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will be the last post about it (of course not the last post about rankings in general and their dynamics). I played around a bit with the data in Excel and had a look at it from a country [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-3517</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/07/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/#comment-3517</guid>
		<description>Eric, thanks for your reply. I share in your worries and concerns about the impact of rankings; what the E&amp;S provokes is a speculation about when rankings stops being a &#039;distortion&#039; of true quality measures and a structural part of the reality itself. Interesting questions.

Thanks for the nice words about my blog, but it&#039;s so hard to keep up! But let me return the compliment - your posts are really great reading, very thought provoking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, thanks for your reply. I share in your worries and concerns about the impact of rankings; what the E&amp;S provokes is a speculation about when rankings stops being a &#8216;distortion&#8217; of true quality measures and a structural part of the reality itself. Interesting questions.</p>
<p>Thanks for the nice words about my blog, but it&#8217;s so hard to keep up! But let me return the compliment &#8211; your posts are really great reading, very thought provoking.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-2818</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/07/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/#comment-2818</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Apologies for my late replies...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;@ Mohammad: thanks for that!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;@ Andrew: thanks for your thoughts on the issue. Don&#039;t get me wrong. I&#039;m not advocating a &#039;nationalist turn&#039; in higher education. And yes, from an individual perspective, I can totally understand the choice for a &#039;name school&#039;. It&#039;s just worrying that this reinforces the prestige game... On the other hand, I do reckognise that this prestige game has a lot of benefits. Cross-national  and cross-organisational learning can contribute to the quality.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just wonder whether international rankings (because of its simplification and quantitative reduction of the term quality) perform this function. I think the obsession with rankings and so-called &#039;world class universities&#039; creates a risk of neglecting some of the functions of universities in the national or regional domain (functions which are usually not included in ranking criteria). Some of these issues are explored in Altbach&#039;s book on world class universities in Asia and Latin America and also by Steiner-Khamsi&#039;s (also from TC Columbia if I&#039;m correct) book on educational lending and borrowing.&lt;/p&gt;

B.t.w.: great blog you started! Interesting posts...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies for my late replies&#8230;</p>
<p>@ Mohammad: thanks for that!</p>
<p>@ Andrew: thanks for your thoughts on the issue. Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I&#8217;m not advocating a &#8216;nationalist turn&#8217; in higher education. And yes, from an individual perspective, I can totally understand the choice for a &#8216;name school&#8217;. It&#8217;s just worrying that this reinforces the prestige game&#8230; On the other hand, I do reckognise that this prestige game has a lot of benefits. Cross-national  and cross-organisational learning can contribute to the quality.</p>
<p>I just wonder whether international rankings (because of its simplification and quantitative reduction of the term quality) perform this function. I think the obsession with rankings and so-called &#8216;world class universities&#8217; creates a risk of neglecting some of the functions of universities in the national or regional domain (functions which are usually not included in ranking criteria). Some of these issues are explored in Altbach&#8217;s book on world class universities in Asia and Latin America and also by Steiner-Khamsi&#8217;s (also from TC Columbia if I&#8217;m correct) book on educational lending and borrowing.</p>
<p>B.t.w.: great blog you started! Interesting posts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mohammad</title>
		<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-1799</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/07/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/#comment-1799</guid>
		<description>Hi Eric, Just to say I really enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.
Mohammad, GSSSP RMIT University</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Eric, Just to say I really enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.<br />
Mohammad, GSSSP RMIT University</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/08/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-820</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.beerkens.info/index.php/2007/07/international-rankings-a-self-fulfilling-nightmare/#comment-820</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this detailed and considered reflection on the Espeland &amp; Sauder paper - and for your effort to expand the implications of their argument to the international context. Just some off-the-cuff thoughts in response:

I&#039;m not convinced myself that the role of rankings at the international level is precisely analogous to the role that the USNWR rankings have come to play in the U.S., even though there are emerging overlaps that are worth monitoring. There’s undeniably an increasingly globalized economy of prestige and reputation, but under conditions of globalization and increasing affluence, the thought that individuals would choose to remain bound to local or national universities that meet ‘national needs’ rather than pursue an educational career that enhances individual social and economic mobility is becoming outdated. From the perspective of an individual student and/or his family, why not pursue education at a ‘name’ school or a degree that will give your resume the semblance of ‘international experience’ If going abroad will promote your career prospects and life chances, why not do so? Universities, in turn, are turning away from their mission of training national/local elites for national/local leadership; rather, seeing the emerging network of trans- and international affiliations among individuals across borders, it makes some degree of sense that they too, would attempt to ‘internationalize’ in order to develop their own networks of support and influence, regardless of where they may be. Rankings of course feed into this, but it’s only part and parcel of a larger system of distributing reputation and prestige along increasingly complicated and dense social networks.

The curious outcome of this, I think, is increasing emphasis  on English-language instruction. Having worked as an international student advisor before becoming a graduate student in education, I’ve noticed the tremendous boom in demand for English-language instruction and education from English-language countries. It’s not the rankings that drives this so much as a determination that the transmission of knowledge – and prestige – is going to be done on the basis of English, and that any individual who wants to enhance employment and social mobility prospects ought to establish some fluency in that language. Of course, universities understand this, but risk overplaying their card when they invite more students than they can sustain without compromising the appearance of quality, as has happened at various institutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this detailed and considered reflection on the Espeland &amp; Sauder paper &#8211; and for your effort to expand the implications of their argument to the international context. Just some off-the-cuff thoughts in response:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced myself that the role of rankings at the international level is precisely analogous to the role that the USNWR rankings have come to play in the U.S., even though there are emerging overlaps that are worth monitoring. There’s undeniably an increasingly globalized economy of prestige and reputation, but under conditions of globalization and increasing affluence, the thought that individuals would choose to remain bound to local or national universities that meet ‘national needs’ rather than pursue an educational career that enhances individual social and economic mobility is becoming outdated. From the perspective of an individual student and/or his family, why not pursue education at a ‘name’ school or a degree that will give your resume the semblance of ‘international experience’ If going abroad will promote your career prospects and life chances, why not do so? Universities, in turn, are turning away from their mission of training national/local elites for national/local leadership; rather, seeing the emerging network of trans- and international affiliations among individuals across borders, it makes some degree of sense that they too, would attempt to ‘internationalize’ in order to develop their own networks of support and influence, regardless of where they may be. Rankings of course feed into this, but it’s only part and parcel of a larger system of distributing reputation and prestige along increasingly complicated and dense social networks.</p>
<p>The curious outcome of this, I think, is increasing emphasis  on English-language instruction. Having worked as an international student advisor before becoming a graduate student in education, I’ve noticed the tremendous boom in demand for English-language instruction and education from English-language countries. It’s not the rankings that drives this so much as a determination that the transmission of knowledge – and prestige – is going to be done on the basis of English, and that any individual who wants to enhance employment and social mobility prospects ought to establish some fluency in that language. Of course, universities understand this, but risk overplaying their card when they invite more students than they can sustain without compromising the appearance of quality, as has happened at various institutions.</p>
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